Arguing With Theists (2)

This particular set of conversations happened in a sunny Wednesday, I was on my way to the library to start a new essay on History of economic thought. It started by what seemed like a peculiar and noticeable advertisement to my Christian marketer friends, whilst I was prepared for it, for I had seen it before. Where I come from, this is taught at schools!

What is it? A simple question: “How do you see yourself in the mirror?”

The “right” answer to this question varies, because it might be asked by a psychologist, or a friend, sometimes there is no right answer for it. But when religious marketers ask this, I think the “right” answer would be something like: “I don’t see myself in the mirror, because I’m a vampire!”

But, that would not lead to an argument, which I usually would like to have. Therefore, my answer was fairly simple, but provocative: “An Atheist!”

The guy asking the question (by the name Scott, I found out later), was holding a piece of paper in his hand. Hearing my answer, with a bit of hesitation, he said: “Well, write it down, every answer is a good answer!” Sure, but I think later he might have changed his mind!

Then again a semi debate started, I don’t clearly remember the first bit of it, but I think he asked me how we came to be? And when I said Evolution, I was surprised by him stating: “I don’t believe in big evolution, just small stuff!” I thought morons only lived in some parts of US!

I did not linger on that subject, because what could I say? “You’re a moron big guy! Have a good day!”?

I went straight to my favourite topic: Morality. And he went straight for “Objective” moral values, as expected. He asked me whether I believe we have objective moral values or not? And I said no, I don’t think we have objective moral values. He went for an example about murder, and then thought he had proven himself right. Of course, if you have followed my blog, you know that I gave my example about Incest. (On The Fakeness of the Concept of Sin)

He hesitated a bit on my argument, and I think it was at that time that a girl (who was another marketer standing there) jumped in between our conversation. She was the one that suggested “Whatever makes us be closer to God is morally acceptable, and whatever pushes us away from him is a Sin.” I did not continue that, because at the time I was not ready for that part, I just said that I have to think about that.

Then I moved on to the next part, which was about the degeneration of religious ideas. I gave my example about the rate of interest. Scott came up with a brilliant statement: “Maybe those who thought interest was a sin were corrupt!”

Certainly possible, but one those people was actually Thomas Aquinas, who is a saint for the followers of Catholic religion. But instead, I explained to him “why” that order had changed, and the reason was the change in economic system. A change so drastic that an idea like this could not resist it.

At this point it seemed that he lost his interest. Of course, like any other good marketer if you see that you cannot sell your goods to someone by any means, get out of there ASAP! And that was the end, I told them that I had work to do, and said goodbye. They said that they would be happy to see me at their group, which of course they did not mean it.

Any moral conclusion from this? Yes, as I pointed out before, their method of marketing is very abusive. If someone is in an emotional state of mind, these people can easily take advantage of him or her. The only way that one can resist is the way of reason, logic and science.


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Dear fellow Homo sapiens, or if you prefer conscious mammals! And of course, friends nonetheless: I created my blog in order to speak my very weird mind, mostly about three subjects (as I identify myself and my state of mind with them): Atheism, as I was born in the Middle East and saw and felt the affects of Islam; Homosexuality and equal rights, as a gay man who has tasted the Homophobia and also Sexism in that society; and Liberalism and political philosophy, which I think is a good ground for secular values and criticism of fundamentalism. If you wish, visit and join your state of mind to mine. I hope they don't short circuit!

2 thoughts on “Arguing With Theists (2)”

  1. anyone who could be converted by street corner religion peddlers is only converted for as long as it takes them to get to the next peddler on the next corner.

    as for that gal’s closer to god is good and away is bad – that still depends on their being a god and knowing what said god deems to be bad and good – and being able to differentiate between good and bad is what the original sin was – eating from a tree that would magically let you tell the difference.

    the christian god likes his followers stupid and dependent – and that’s not a group of people anyone with a functioning brain stem should bother with.

    1. Yes, true. Though this thing is quite new for me, because I come from the middle east and as you may know Muslims are not very fund of talking on street corners. They might stand in a corner with a sword though! 😀

      And yes, I later realized that, wrote it here:

      Goodness! I hope my brain is still functioning! 😀
      But aside from jokes, I gotta say I am not fed up with these guys “yet”. I will probably be, but their lack of understanding amuses me, as their lack of knowledge. I kinda want to know how much they don’t know!

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